In interfaith work, we look for inspiring people, past and present, who exemplify how someone can be motivated by their beliefs to cooperate across differences.
Journalist and author Jonathan Eige writes biographies of some of the most influential interfaith leaders, including Muhammad Ali And Martin Luther King Jr.
In our recent conversation On the “Interfaith America” podcast, we talked about how Eig, who is Jewish, sees the great influence of King’s Christian faith and Ali’s Muslim faith in each of their lives and work.
Their biographies illustrate how our own faith and beliefs can inspire us, allowing us to explore impactful work and reflect on what people of diverse faiths can achieve together.
An extract from our conversation has been edited for clarity and length.
Eboo Patel: What is it like to be Jewish and write about these immense Christian and Muslim figures?
Jonathan Eig: Yes, my friends and family want to know why I haven’t written about any Jews, and maybe it’s because I’m not as interested in what I already know.
I think being Jewish and being raised in a certain religion – but becoming more religious as I get older – makes me appreciate the spirituality of all religions, and I am drawn to people of faith. Muhammad Ali’s faith was truly what made him Muhammad Ali and not just a boxer. The reason he deserved a major biography was because of his faith, not because of his boxing.
Christianity is absolutely the central ingredient as to why Martin Luther King Jr. is Martin Luther King Jr. Without Christianity, without that deep faith that he has in God, he can’t do what he does. So, I just think it’s essential to who I am, and it’s essential to who these characters are. I’m not really interested in writing about people who are in it for money or power. I’m interested in people who are trying to live their lives spiritually.
EP: Were you aware of the centrality of Ali’s faith and King’s faith before you began the projects? Was that part of the appeal of writing about them before even diving deep?
I : I was vaguely aware of it. I knew it was important, but I didn’t know how important. Part of the reason I love my job is that I get to dive in and explore and understand what really made these guys leave. Dick Gregory, when I interviewed him, told me…if you’re going to try to write a book about Muhammad Ali, you have to understand what made him think he could be great. What made a black boy grow up the same age as Emmet Till Do you think he could respond to white power and live and that kind of challenge? What made Martin Luther King think he could lead a movement to change American society, to try to rid it of its greatest sin? What gave him the chutzpah, as my people would say, and that comes down to faith for both of us. I think that’s a big part of why I find them endlessly fascinating.
EP: A friend of mine, when I was starting “Interfaith America,” pointed out that in high school we learn about Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., but we don’t learn about the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. .interfaith king search process.
Were there one or two details that you discovered while researching King’s faith that moved you, even if it wasn’t the kind of thing you would have learned about in high school or college? ‘university ?
I : Without a doubt, and I completely agree with you, we are not as comfortable talking about his Christianity. We’re not as comfortable talking about his radical Christianity in particular. We softened him to the point that he would no longer recognize himself in this vision that we created,”I have a dream.” Much of what he did was motivated by his faith, and when he had doubts, he turned to them every time.
The first example is when his house was bombed and he was just beginning to lead the Montgomery bus boycott. He didn’t have to continue. He didn’t have to be the leader. He could have backed down at that point, just for the safety of his family. His father, who was a very religious man, also the Rev. Martin Luther King Sr., came to Montgomery and told him, “You have to stop. You don’t have to be the leader, you can lead your church, you can get involved, but you are putting yourself and your family’s lives at risk.
King said he was really struggling with it, and he was walking around the house in the middle of the night, and his wife and baby were sleeping, and he sat down at the table and heard the voice of God said to him: “Continue. This is what you are called to do.
I found in some records, another example where he says, again, a second time, he heard the voice of God speaking to him. As his career progresses, there are times when he might withdraw, where his life is in danger, where he is criticized, where he feels like he doesn’t really connect with people anymore, but he can. I can’t go back because he believes in God and he believes that’s what the Bible tells him to do.
EP: It’s remarkable, and one of the threads of your book that I find so powerful is that not only are there obvious forces against him – the explicit forces of white supremacy in the form of police dogs , fire hoses and batons – but J. Edgar Hoover knows he can’t engage him more openly, so he essentially engages in this blackmail campaign and King perseveres. As you demonstrate, much of this concerns his Christian faith.
You’re a Jew writing about Ali and now Reverend King, and Jews play an extremely important role in King’s formation. Abraham Joshua Heschel, for example, they met right here in Chicago, in 1963. As you research and write this book, how does your Jewish faith evolve as you learn about Rev. King’s Christian faith and his openness to the influences of others. beliefs?
I : There’s a lot to this question. It was interesting because I was speaking at a bookstore in Pennsylvania and someone asked me the question: Why isn’t there more Judaism in this book? Why don’t I pay more attention to the rabbis who influenced Reverend King? Why isn’t there more information about Heschel in this book? I was stopped by this question. I wondered if perhaps I had unconsciously downplayed these contributions because I did not want to be accused of favoring Jews or giving them more credit than they deserved in the civil rights movement.
They certainly deserved a lot of credit, and King had many close friends and advisors in the Jewish community, but someone was saying that perhaps I had underestimated the contribution of the Jews. Again, I consider myself a journalist, and my job here is to be fair, is to be anonymous. I don’t want anyone to read this and say, well, obviously there’s this Jewish influence coming back, but my influence as a believer in God is all over the book and my faith — I make a weekly podcast with my rabbi, and I’ve been doing this for three or four years now, every week we call each other and talk about that week’s Torah portion. In my notebooks in which I interview Reverend King’s friends, you will see each week in these notebooks the page where I take notes on my conversation with the rabbi.
These things are going through my head and my life at the same time. I literally study with my rabbi, and I study with Rev. James Lawson and Rev. Bernard Lafayette. I call them, talk to them, and ask them about Rev. King and his faith as I explore my own Jewish faith. I see them as woven, just like they are in my notebooks.
Eboo Patel, founder and president of Interfaith America, is a Deseret News contributor, the author of “We must build: Field notes for a diverse democracy» and the host of the podcast «Interfaith America with Eboo Patel.” The full episode of this podcast is available on Interfaith America, Spotify And Apple.
