Based on the classic bestselling novel by James Clavell, the upcoming 10-episode limited series from Hulu and FX Shogun takes place in Japan in 1600. It is a country deeply divided after the death of its ruler Taiko, who leaves behind an heir too young to rule. A board of regents is established to oversee affairs until he comes of age, but in true Game of Thrones fashion, many factions are involved for different motives that ensure it won’t be a matter of a peaceful transition of power.
One of these factions is that of the Europeans. Portuguese missionaries and traders brought Catholicism to the shores of Japan a few years before, dividing its citizens into believers and nonbelievers. In Shōgun, Portuguese and Spanish Catholics aim to keep trade with the Japanese to themselves while John Blackthrone, an English ship pilot, wants to ensure that the Protestants gain the upper hand.
Here’s what showrunners Justin Marks and Rachel Kondo recently told IGN about their long journey to playing the lead roles. (EDITOR’S NOTE: This interview has been edited for clarity.)
IGN: How did the introduction of Christianity to Japan set the stage for some of the conflicts and events we see unfold on Shōgun?
Justin Marques: Christianity was evolving at this time, I believe it would be another 20 years before it was expressly banned throughout Japan. But it was certainly a controversial worldview at the time that the Japanese adopted as their own religion. It was introduced by the Portuguese Jesuits who, of course, were making economic forays into Japan at the time they were doing it. The way we approached it in the series was to use Christianity as another faction, a point of interest that Blackthorne has to navigate. Because of course, when we talk about Christianity, we’re really talking about Catholicism in Japan. And then Blackthorne arrives as a European Protestant in direct competition with Portuguese and Spanish interests around the world. So it was a fun game card to present on the table and also be able to represent a variety of types of Christians that could be found in Japan.
You would have those like Regent Ohno who was very pious and faithful after his affliction (of) leprosy. And then there were those like Kiama who, perhaps his qualms were a little less honest about why he chose to be a Christian because of the resources he would gain. And of course he knew that and it’s a game they play. We wanted to reflect that on screen, that the Japanese were very aware of what the Jesuits were trying to do there at the time. And it’s like, “If you want to play this game, we’ll play this game. Sure.” Which seemed like a different way to describe it, but very consistent with the novel. And this is the landscape that James Clavell had set up. So we just took it straight from the book.
Rachel Kondo: And also religion as just another cultural difference or another point of cultural difference. And I thought it was such a great prelude to what the novel Silence did first and then the film Silence accomplished, which is to say that we all come to other cultures thinking that we are going to leave our mark, that we are going to have an impact, and it is going to matter in a way that I perceive as important. And it’s such a humbling thing in that you can never really get there because it’s not entirely possible to erase an entire culture and transplant your own ideas into it. And so I don’t know, it was an interesting exercise for us to try to modulate that and do it through the characters Justin describes.
IGN: Which role was the most difficult to choose?
Justin Marques: My goodness, that’s a great question, because there are many, like Toranaga, like having the great Hiroyuki Sanada playing Toranaga that comes like second nature. If he wasn’t there, he would have invented the role to play it. You can’t separate the two. I would say we were looking for something very special when it came to Mariko. First of all, we needed someone who was very fluent in Japanese and English, and someone who could capture the very, very careful performance calibrations that would need to be done in both languages. So already there, you are looking for a unicorn. And then among all of that, now you have to find someone who brings what we want to every role on this show, which is a very careful and studied humanity, that no one acts like they’re just in some sort of big suit. .
We were looking for a naturalism that didn’t seem born out of Western traditions where people act a bit posh and extravagant, but also out of traditional Japanese jidaigeki, where there’s a sense of playing things in a broader way. We had to find a woman who could do all these things. And Anna Sawai threaded that needle so perfectly. But man, it was a long, long journey to find her and find that perfect person in that way. There were times, I’m not kidding, I thought maybe we’ll never be able to play this role until she came along. It was like, there you go. Here it is. It all came together.
Rachel Kondo: Cosmo Jarvis was similar to Anna, but with a different journey. In that, if you remember the book, the character (of Blackthrone) was described as sort of Nordic in appearance with light hair, light eyes, just a different physique. So you have an idea in your head of what he might present. And then you come across the Cosmo Jarvis audition tape, which Justin tells his story with so I’m not going to steal it. But I think what he did was he taught us to look at the role in a new way. He taught us what the role should be.
Justin Marques: I think we also opted for Blackthorne. I mean, there are so many wonderful actors, but when we found certain actors, it felt like it was a good marriage between a great actor and this role that you would expect them to are playing. And I just felt like there was always something that let down the role when we did it that way. And then Jonathan van Tulleken, who directed the first two episodes, said, “You should watch this guy Cosmo Jarvis. He had just done this movie, Calm With Horses.” And I watched it and it’s like this guy is a fantastic actor, but is he Blackthorne? That has always been the concern.
And then we said, well, let’s see if he’ll do a reading, if he’ll do an audition. And he did, and he recorded it somewhere in his attic on an iPhone with a low angle and a knit hat on his head, still doing the accent of the show he had just finished . And it was just that kind of brilliant, unpredictable performance. There’s the second scene that we put in during the audition that’s like pure exposition, the most thankless scene you’ve ever had. And if an actor can make you hear that for the first time, then you know they’ve got something good. And the way he performed it, I was like, “Did we write that? That’s great. How did that work?”
But even then, I said, “This is great. But it’s not Blackthorne, is it? It doesn’t conform to this kind of idea that we had of how this character should look and act in a traditional way. And so I just scrolled down and went to the next audition. It was a Thursday or Friday, and then Sunday of that weekend, I was like, I’m still only thinking about Cosmo. I can’t stop thinking about that audition. And so I sent it to one of the executives (at FX) and I said, “Hey, what do you think about this?” We’ve been watching this all day and I’m just curious to see, not anything else, just what. Are you thinking about that?” And within three hours, I’m not kidding, every single person at FX had seen that audition. It spread like a confirmation, because it’s so fascinating.
Sometimes you need to approach something in the least predictable and least unexpected way. That’s really what Cosmo brought, this energy that felt definitely modern, almost like the punk rock version of this character you thought you were. And that punk rock ideal is really what led to many of our signposts throughout this show. Even though it’s a period piece, and even though it’s set in another language and another culture and everything else, it’s like you’ve never seen it like this before. That was really our goal.
IGN: What struck me about Cosmo’s Blackthorne is that the guy isn’t immediately likable. He’s a little scary. He has that Tom Hardy thing.
Rachel Kondo: But you will never forget it.
Justin Marks: I think that’s what gave us the other angle that we were looking for in Blackthorn, in this kind of mischievous colonialist character. At the beginning of the story, we were looking for a son of a bitch, and we just wanted someone who could play that well and who could play it unpredictably. I don’t know, is he a hero or a villain? He seems like a villain at the start of this story in the way he calculates and the angles he goes for. But I like him, so I am. And that’s a really, really difficult thing for an actor to do, is to have you interact with him and follow him through the story, but also to be sort of a little bit afraid of him.
What is astonishing, without going into spoilers, is the journey that this character makes, this character who sits in the first episode to exert his influence on this culture to which he does not belong, this type of character, the spiritual journey that he continues. I think letting go is something the audience doesn’t expect. The only reference I can think of that we were watching from that time – and as a film that I deeply cherish and love – is like watching Robert De Niro in The Mission. These films where there are these mischievous men, and then they just have to be humiliated and brought to their knees, and then rebuild themselves, but build themselves up in a different image. This image of spiritual abandonment of their colonialist mentality.
The first two episodes of Shōgun will premiere on Hulu and FX on February 27.
